Taiwan, mainland China People's Congress Chief Justice of words

 Chief Justice, deputies of words mainland Taiwan
mm Phoenix property of the great debate of the official announcement Sunshine Act
 note of my students, Yixi Tan adaptation, the other to keep the video are the original content. this link over the text to satisfy the users concerned about this debate!
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Time: at 20:30 on April 4, 2009
Location: Phoenix Studio
Moderator: Phoenix, Research Institute, the Independent Commission Against Corruption and the former director of the Center Mao Zhaohui
Chief Justice of Miss Xie Qida
Taiwan CPPCC National Committee members, Beijing Jincheng Law Firm accessible founding partner of Miss Liu Hongyu Yang Fan, professor of China University of Politics
< br> famous writer Lu Tianming
novel anti-guest audience: more than 60
Core Tip:
Moderator Hu Yihu: At present, most countries have introduced public assets declaration system. The system can become a national anti-corruption tool is mainly determined by its own characteristics, and the nature of the system is characterized by open and transparent. as long as the personal property that officials there is a gap between their normal earnings, officials have to make explanations and instructions, such as the available evidence does not provide legal, Even without evidence that is illegally acquired, will also be identified as the gray income Offences
126 years ago, in 1883, the British Parliament passed the countries, then most of the world, including the United States, Japan, South Korea, the gradual introduction and improvement of this mechanism.
1993, Taiwan's purposes.
1994, China will the first implementation of Wang Quanjie the Tenth National People's Congress in 2005 also proposed sparked widespread controversy in society.
whether officials should not be given the exemption? officials should declare the immediate family? current public officials, property may be feasible? User Reviews different opinions: people how to do that? , first introduced to say. Moderator Hu Yihu exemption issue
: Global Chinese, Hello, Welcome to nearly 95, but our land so far have not seen the sunshine laws, it can not be implemented, in the end and why? Now if you want the initiative to declare the property officials should not enjoy immunity? a big PK immediately start. first of all of our news people
mm one of the sponsors, in my left hand, the warm applause of Shandong Province People's Congress Wang Quanjie welcome, welcome on behalf of the king. with his PK is the right hand side of the Chinese People's University of Public Policy Institute, the Independent Commission Against Corruption and the director of policy research center, Mao Zhaohui, Maozhu Ren, you are welcome. At first, the first king to ask representatives of so many countries, have enjoyed the sunshine laws, but we no way to shine, problem at the point where you think?
Wang Quanjie: The key is our long-term national feudal rule, the remnants of long-term authoritarian ideology, officials such as parents, people like dirt, so that people can not talk about officials, assets, and we still lack a lot of matched with the publicity the system of property, but also a lack of awareness of many democratic society, so the need to do it, we are much more difficult than others.
Moderator: In this case, we want government officials to declare his own initiative property, you have proposed exemption, this exemption is the concept of what? Please mm
Wang Quanjie: I have the basic concept of a national reporting and publicity officials announced the implementation of the property before the law took effect, should the first six months the establishment of ill-gotten gains within the account, so that officials should be outside of their own assets, (Moderator: those stolen money, those gray income) were all into this account, the account can not remember the name, but everyone has a password, everyone has number. If you say that in the October 1, 2010 implementation, we start from April 1 to officials in half a year to operate their own assets into the account. to the law took effect that day, if he is only a publicity, and the remaining five If at it, review reports from the public and organizations, the officials can quote how much my password, I've handed it to account for ill-gotten gains go, I have done in six months.
Moderator: Good If he is a man to do so, give him a way out, is a grace period is very important.
Wang Quanjie: Yes, very important.
Moderator: Well, thank you on behalf of the king, giving him a way out is to have exemption, no exemption, no way out. countries there is no way to recover the money, the Maozhu Ren, you are also studying this topic, that possible? exemption mm
Mao Zhaohui: not feasible, nor should be, why? the first to declare income from a property perspective the purpose of enacting the law, legislative purpose of the two, one is the prevention of corruption, one is fighting corruption, the so-called concept of prevention what is meant? means money in my time, if there is property income of a reporting system out there, I took the money might I have to publicity, a publicity problem, I dare not receive this money, is called prevention. The so-called punishment, by property income declaration system, we have to find the corrupt elements Finally, the corrupt elements to justice. So in that sense, the so-called grace period for him is to go into hiding to justice the corrupt elements of a grace period. In other words, there are many corrupt elements, who do not eat with rice, could not sleep, because it is ill-gotten gains, is not it!
Moderator: Wait a minute, he will not necessarily eat rice ah.
Mao Zhaohui: I think anyone, as long as this property is not his, not lawful, from the perspective of his heart will always fear, but fear not the same degree, so why are sick of corrupt officials, many do.
Moderator: Wait a minute, so he just talked about, and now you exemption period will not let you get sick, and let you be able to sleep well, you up the money to pay out, you can sleep secure in the good.
Mao Zhaohui: corrupt elements will in turn pay the money out of it? is not possible!
Moderator: You mean, even with this exemption, he handed the money would not go in the account.
Mao Zhaohui: There is only one possibility, such as corruption, he a million, he might come up with three hundred thousand, symbolically handed over to the Independent Commission Against account, we judiciary and discipline inspection organs may only find him one to two, the final result but let him run.
Moderator: First, do you think this exemption is not feasible. The second fundamental fact is not worth it, right? Wang, please add.
Wang Quanjie: one is our task too heavy, we are now too many difficulties. We would prefer to admit his past mistakes sin is a sin, we have to exchange for our country for generations enjoy one of the best fighting system to make these sacrifices. I give you A true story of history. Cao Cao army with Yuan Shao and Yuan Shu, the Hebei brothers went out. went out there after the seizure of a box from the Yuan Jia, the box is the last hands of the officials to Cao Cao Yuan Shao, Yuan's loyalty Litongwaiguo letter and the letter should not be punishing? men will open the box to make Cao Cao Cao Cao and to see Cao Cao determined not to allow open, but the generals summoned to a public, publicly burned, and even a piece of the box, and allegiance to the letter burned, so to win the final victory of Cao Cao in order to obtain long-term stability, otherwise you set about how many enemies? your people, about one thousand warriors have become the antithesis of hundreds of people, when Yuan Shao Yuan Shu forces people big, small strength of Cao Cao .
Mao Zhaohui: We are actually a lot of errors, if the exemption given to corrupt officials, then put some sense, that you pass such a law, the original bribery and corruption that you, not your legal responsibility to investigate, so I say from this sense, it is essentially beyond the scope of property income declaration system, this is the first . then the second point of it, no officials are aware that bribery is illegal, corruption is illegal is illegal misappropriation of public funds, now have a grace period can become legitimate, then the maximum degree of this transformation is to give him a kind of luck, and said he would not take the initiative to put this money in the account we are talking about 5981,591 inside, he would put this money to be transferred through various channels. So we are now the most urgent task important two questions. The first is our discipline inspection organs and our prosecution of any property of an official audit mechanism to fully established, this is a key issue. The second question, we must, through a number of system construction, such as that the rights of whistle-blower protection, or people did not dare to report, for you to wear a fiberglass hard to do your small shoes.
Wang Quanjie: Actually we have two central provisions of the two systems require officials to declare their income and property, Why not open the implementation? why most do not follow the actual declaration? main reason for the result reporting or publicity? declare that their own people monitoring their own people, I declare, I declare to my leadership, this leadership saw this guy, but too many assets (mm host than I have money) too much, but this is my hand-picked cadre, it was people, so hh. This is actually an internal system to oversee the insider, and I made publicity property, the fundamental difference lies in the supervision to the people, to the people, by the people to supervise, not just the internal supervision, the black box monitoring.
Moderator: the population in general, generally we can see.
Wang Quanjie: can see, I'm online, I read the newspaper can be seen, the power of public system is that people are the eyes that you are able to escape.
Moderator: Well, to you piercing eyes, and I see how you is? you do not agree with the king on behalf of recognition, recognition of the move in favor of the move against the opposition, three-two, to see the scene of the guests, piercing eyes of the audience, good to man, wearing suit and tie, eyes that is you, come, please
guests A: If I feel that if the words to this period, that is, solve the worries him, but to solve this problem What is the purpose? want to achieve, what kind of effect ? If the simplest is to find a pretext for him to find a next step, I feel is totally unnecessary.
Moderator: Well, thank you, to please the President, the exemption is not necessary do you think?
Guest B: I feel the need. because of any legal system came out, it should have a grace period, as honest liberal like, if we have this grace period after the legal system is stable, it is can, can we fully accept the publicity, and without this grace period, then I hide, I hide, you always can not catch, right?
Moderator: see you quite the experience. But I more practical to ask the question to the king on behalf of, in fact, did you actually survey, have come across a lot of officials, I have taken here is that you write the newspaper, you see: is getting higher and higher, > Wang Quanjie: Of course, few officials say too much my property, I do not agree to publicity, probably say There is no point of privacy of the specific figures. In short the difficulties we face is very large. We want to implement a new system, this new system and the original reporting system is completely different. party reporting system was introduced many years, we talk about, with the declaration system Some corrupt officials to seize the country in the end? No! is almost impossible! mm that we believe that the public system to the people's system of oversight is a new system, and the original reporting system is quite different, is the implementation of a new Legal.
Moderator: If you use just the representative said the king, it may open a port, it is to encourage your government officials compare their own money or thing of the past to pay for it, you just talked about the legal part, we legal witness to see the so-called Well!
Wang Quanjie: A friend just spoke very indignant, and I fully understand, I used to be a field Jieruchou indeed people who report extraordinary when young, came to light extraordinary, ( Moderator: The results have not been publicized that the assets on this matter.) assets on the publicity this matter was particularly strong, I said, wiped out the corrupt officials, all hacked in pieces. I had to think so, so many people, there is no adequate food and clothing, so many poor children is also not afford school fees, there are so many poor people in rural areas of coverage, and you still corruption extravagance. You are the people, civil servants, public servants of our support, I did not have food to eat the owner? so that public servants who get can into it? I was very angry, I wrote a lot of things in this area. The result? not only unworkable, but the situation is not getting better. Later, I become more rational, the Third Session of the Tenth National People's Congress has been to, I have the following financial disclosure system for leading cadres, according to representatives of 30 of the law can provide the motion, and we have over fifty, this time moving only a small step.
Moderator: Wait a minute, you say that? If you do not do so to be hacked in pieces and this, say you?
Wang Quanjie: It was much to fine (Moderator: It was not talked about), but this thing is still not written into the civil service for various reasons law, I said there could be other legislation it! and 2007, the second suggested that the third time in 2008, proposed, on behalf of my term of office three times within the toss. and you feel exactly the same. me too much in front of mountains , we have too many difficulties, we have to change thousands of years this authoritarian habits is not easy.
Moderator: Well, I'm not embarrassed on behalf of, and representatives today to say, we do not make things difficult for you to That is a critical point he points out, the mountains to put in the next, it is not a hill, we should not rely on the removal of the Foolish Old Man Mountain, to use their brains and wisdom, light Jieruchou may not work, we look field, there are no friends of corrupt officials, tell us some other insider, is there? to the left of the first, round of applause to welcome him, who wears glasses, please mm
guests C: First of all I'm the king on his behalf The Jieruchou express my deep admiration, but I met some of the suffering, he said, the immediate thought of a backward way, I do not. I think I should keep on fighting, we should continue our efforts. The declaration said that the property I think this involves two issues, one should not declare that the problem is, one should not grasp the problems of corrupt officials. This is primarily determined not to give him a certain exemption period, then further measures to how to do it, it is need to play people's wisdom, to further explore the issue. As for the former, I think the answer is no doubt that they can not give him a waiver.
Moderator: exemption is absolutely impossible, yes, you will not do that strongly , here comes the lady please say.
Guest D: I think to give him a grace period, a certain necessity, that during this period, some officials may have been aware of his mistakes, if given he was such an exemption mm
guests of E (grab that): to give him a way out, give him a grace period, then not only can not let him take the initiative to not greed, or even condone most corrupt, it did not give exemption period, have become so greedy, and give him a grace period, it is more out of control.
Guest D: give him a grace period, not to say do not hold him accountable, but that gave him such an opportunity, but if he did not seize this opportunity, then, that under the law can still come back.
Guest E: far more corrupt the resources in hand much more than ordinary people, if he was already There are many opportunities to escape legal penalties, if to give him a grace period, then the law did not take him a little rut.
Host: We take a look at the third row of the last one here, please say. < br> Guest F: I think there should be buffer, but this grace period should not be pardoned, but should be arrested the entire group of people, this is the ultimate solution, this is the best way.
Moderator: Let me ask Maozhu Ren, in fact, we on this thing from an economic theory to analyze the prisoner to the interests concerned, in accordance with the current situation that he can talk? or really give him a grace period? his right to the lesser of two evils, I'd rather let the corrupt officials to declare that it is for me good, is not easy to say he was out, more willing to pay out of his stolen money.
Mao Zhaohui: that from the corrupt point of view, from his heart, he did not feel a crime or is shameless, he is a wicked. Given such a premise of most corrupt he may choose a to his ill-gotten gains, the first handed a small part of the vast majority he will not pay, and we legally give him a grace period to make most of his property was safe. we may have a false assumption, that the party and government cadres seemed to many people are corrupt, so we have the exemption period, in fact, cadres, the real part of corrupt officials is rare, is not it? property income declaration system point of view it is to find these corrupt officials, including the students we have said, After the discovery of corrupt officials to justice, to release many of our position and give us fresh university undergraduate students.
Moderator: not a prison make a lot of positions, to allow them to succeed.
Mao Zhaohui: Yes, Teng a lot of location, so I think actually there to give them a question of exemption, give a lot of former officials of corruption, their hearts will think?
Moderator: Yes, I knew I went to greed, taking advantage of the king We also discuss the time on behalf of up to greed, is not it? have such situation?, Wang representatives, for a clean person to clean his own, he really care about you?
Wang Quanjie: According to my know, the real honest cadres are welcome to implement publicity property system, they are welcome inside, it is to fish in a chaos, the implementation of public system, put a clean distinction between cadres and the corrupt officials. I think the key is behind you the implementation of the publicity, it is not the general reporting. You say you have ten of your original house, you now only reported the three, and that the rest of the seven, which people can see out, which did not take the air in the wall. objective the fact of existence may be reflected.
Moderator: Do you believe that you agree with the king in favor please raise issues on behalf of the board, three-two, is not really like this it?
Wang Quanjie: And we on the use of anti-corruption, supervision of funds, can save hundreds of million yuan, more than half of workers can also be streamlined. This approach is not non-implementation.
Moderator: also is the need for publicity, need to exempt it be possible to make this bill forward, but some people just give the audience a favor cards, and some against, what they are suspected in the end? Next, we discuss if the public system is really implemented, only the parties to declare my property? or including his children? his spouse? his parents all have to declare? take a break and return to our site, continue to Tiger Yixi Tan, Jincheng Law Firm's Founding Partner LianHu, welcome. We call the Sunshine Act up applause in our land with the sun shining out of its deterrent force, but the Sunshine Act should be declared only officials themselves? or including his spouse with children? ask Miss Xie address this issue, your views.
Hsieh: I think I probably have to declare the presence of only one property, I started from the beginning when representatives of the people reporting each year To declare, I declare about nine, and including my election time. At that time no law, I took out of his property to the public, because the only way to win the trust of the electorate to vote for you. we require to declare their property, the spouse's property to declare, there are minor children's property to declare. (Moderator: minor children? Why?) because this is very simple, minor children, in fact, he can not have the ability to make to the money, so of course he called the property is family property; then the husband and wife's property is common property (we assume that they are feeling very good), so I think it should be declared. So will someone put this property into the parents, parents-in, put the so-called adult children or relatives living together there? of course possible, even his mistress could, right? However, I must say, we want the law can be implemented today, the premise is not against surface is too large. (Moderator: too much of attack happens?) of attack too much people have reason to say that this is not feasible, against the side too, not implemented. Today, I believe all of us punishment; only you in violation of, at most, is the administrative penalties for you.
Wang Quanjie: Let's just say I thank very understanding judge. The key now is that we are not perfect the legal system in China is the country, our country to the present gift of property Legal mm did not. each an account of the system has not. personal property can not be reflected in the bank. (Moderator: now there is no established system and supporting?), these have not been established, if you want to implementation of public system of property that is bound to make their ill-gotten gains accumulated for many years are stored in their close people. and their own (such as a corrupt magistrate recently identified) may have nothing, I just proletarians, the people I was public servants it! servants which the money? not the same as we and the United States, we are not the same India, India did not spend the Inland Revenue Department, are from his personal account reflected inside the transaction, direct debit from the inside on the line of his duty China OK? China should not be allowed.
Moderator: King representative, I make a fork, you simply tell me, your idea is for this part, for the immediate family members should not declare the property, your views是?
Wang Quanjie: to declare, at least within three years.
Moderator: Well, come on, Field's guests have different views, please give his glasses in favor.
Guest G: I went on Professor Mao and Wang said, we must all immediate family members, including minor children, adult children, including her parents, grandparents, as long as the immediate family members are listed inside. We are loopholes in the system where property declaration ? only for cadres at and above the Commissioner, Kejiyishang cadres did not. There he drive a BMW, Mercedes-Benz child cadres money coming from? my parents get there, what are my parents get there, if only I have such a system is declared a mere formality, so I agree there should be extended to the entire immediate family members be declared (against the surface to expand?) is not a blow was extended, is to make the system more viable and more perfect.
guest H: Actually, I think we should put combination of reporting and publicity, should be called to declare public system. That is the scope of the declaration of the scope can be extended to the immediate inside, but only when publicity publicity to his spouse and his minor children, I think this can be both balanced to the officials, privacy, and publicity and effectively reflects the effect of such a declaration.
Moderator: His is not a good compromise, because you have to take into consideration other people's privacy. Third row, a warm applause to welcome him, please.
guests I: Hello everybody, I support the views of Miss Xie. to all immediate family members, all of them into the scope of declaration, the first is not feasible. s Second, I think it is not human, do not know if you have not seen in Taiwan interviewed Chen Shui-bian's daughter Chen Hsing-yu of those fragments. Chen Hsing her as a college student is participating in a particular test, then a bunch of reporters dogged. say you are your father money laundering, etc. to see how these things so? her speak I was very Xie Sili examination, Why do you interfere with my life. I feel like a king on behalf of some family members say there is no way the definition is accurate, such as his mistress, you have no way to define, but can not go into the legal system there to the people involved is too broad, but to no avail. Miss Xie about fifteen years, Taiwan has implemented a system, it is a certain test has been I think there is a grain of truth, after all, one of our system is reasonable, keep up the cultural attributes of a nation closely linked.
LianHu: So this declaration is not the be all equal in the open, worth exploring. Because if I have to declare publicly, now I see the king, including representatives, including the National People's Congress Han Deyun mentioned by the parents, spouse, her parents, brothers and sisters, both adult and minor children, as well as to live together Family others, then in this case, Ms. Xie used a word, called the fight side too, I use a word called the law was valid, may have a legal basis, if the property declaration system called the civil service, you let so many non-civil servants to release his incompetent choice, such as his sister, I'll be your sister is not wrong, I did not stick to your light, but I been your exposure, this situation is not in the legislation hh
Moderator: In some ways, violated her right to privacy, to the gentleman you said, to keep you waiting.
audiences J: I agree with Professor Wang and Mao views on behalf of not only officials property must be open, and his spouse, parents, parents-children should be open, there is a word that is realistic. from the national conditions, such a property system in China is very contemporary sound, if only the public official's property It may well be reduced to a pro forma, the process of going through the motions, but no real use. If there is no problem officials themselves, his parents, her parents, spouse, children, public property, what does it matter? contrast found no problems after the publication of , it said that to further strengthen the credibility of the officials, but also more convenient to work in the future.
Moderator: Well, thank you, to the king representative added.
Wang Quanjie: I just spoke in favor of the young man, but a panacea to our thank Justice, Ms Lau us. This service is a panacea for what? is supporting our country to establish a system, this system is a series of property system, including property transfer, inheritance, donation of property system, which is necessary , this way, you can easily and their parents separated. Second, our one person, one account, the stock real names, real estate real name, account name system, tax and account to pay tax. If a person an account, I will not easily put money hit someone else's account so that ownership of all ran, and now this system is not established. the panacea, we have not yet implemented, have not eaten this medication. Why could not eat so many years? because it paid very bitter medicine, which pay for drugs not eat, how many interests involved? you can make the property real-name system? you dare a person an account? how can I work? him a person can have dozens of accounts, tax accounts you dare to use it? no. so very difficult. now? Now many officials are the beneficiaries of the family. let county officials, there are several county child can not find jobs? Stop looking, your child has not graduated before (Moderator: someone gave him to find a good job), and grabbing, but also do not need to say hello county, asking the child to the county not get a job, up to do, like the case of this relationship, he is the beneficiary of a beneficiary to was announced. I feel very interests and obligations is the most basic legal equality, the beneficiaries will publish, is not it?
Moderator:, we see Liu you would like to add, please say mm
LianHu: In fact, on this issue, I think there is another part of the official family income, he and others not in the same starting line, although such a project were to go to bid, but a variety of means to cause him more opportunities than others. those people bowl full of gold and silver basin, that is, or reporting, to bribe officials to determine this is you?
Wang Quanjie: people have discerning eyes, I believe that this supervisory power by a minority to the public will get the correct conclusion. Authority the right to transfer is a major revolution in China, the revolution and the revolution of 1949 almost.
Moderator: Well, thank you, but the problem is that there is a great mountains have been stuck in front of you to do so on behalf of the king too fast, nor too early to applaud to you, the next big mountain to overcome? In fact, in this land, has begun a pilot trial of the case is? to be met, a short break.
III Altai, Cixi's success or failure
Moderator: give you about two guests, sitting on my right hand side is Yang Fan, professor of China University of Politics, welcome brother Yang. sitting on my left hand is specifically written novels of the famous anti-corruption writer Lu Tianming, welcome to land brother came to the scene.
When down in the end may be the property of public officials is not feasible? are not we say, we take a look at how the Prime Minister say? please listen.
[broadcast Premier TV picture] Premier Wen: We say to implement government affairs, but also the implementation of public officials, property income, of course, the real things to do instead of going through the motions, we must ...